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Learning Pot Odds in Poker Tournaments

A good question from the forum :

I got tournament indicator recently and am having trouble understanding the pot odds. Math was always a headache. Is there a simple way to understanding the percentages for the pot odds with this program? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

In settings set the odds indicator to ratios not percents. As in 4:1 is what it will show for example which is 25% pot odds.

It is easier to understand and you know that for every chip you put in if the pot odds are 4 to 1 you get 4 back and if 3 to 1 you get three back.

You you have odds of 1:3 to hit your flush and pot odds of 5:1 to call then you have GREAT odds to make the call.

Also, you can look at the bar chart in TI, if the green on the left is higher than the one on the right make the call usually because it means your win odds are higher than the pot odds cost so most of the time it’s the right call.

Just some examples for you. also, you better brush up on basic math is it is crucial to you in poker to add, subtract, divide and multiply.

yes I made the switch from % to ratio some time ago and it has helped me when deciding a situation.

As a math teacher, I think I should be of some sort of help

Is that chewing gum!… er anyway

Ok from memory, (I don’t actually own TI) there are 2 little bars, one saying pot odds, the other saying win odds.

Just so we are on the same page, the win odds are calulated by counting the cards that you need to catch to make the best hand.

For example, You have KcTc, and the flop is Ac 8c 4h. The program will count the cards you need to win, which at this point are 9 of the clubs left in the deck to make you the nut flush.

So it counts 9 possible clubs ,flush cards, then calulates the chance you will hit a club IF YOU SEE THE RIVER AND THE TURN.

WIth a flush draw, you will hit 1 of those 9 outs about 35% of the time if you see the turn and river. But if you only see the next card, its about half that 18% or so.

Back to TI.

So your win odds will be 35%. Now we have to look at the pot odds. Say your opponent bets into the above example where you hold KcTc.

The pot at the moment is 300, and your opponent bets 100. You look at the pot odds bar, and it will say 4-1. This is taken than you are calling 100 to win 400 (the pot is 400 as the opponents bet has increaded it from 300 to 400).

SImpler form, must call 100 into a 400 pot.

Now we go back to our win odds. You need at least 4-1 win odds to make this call correct.

Do we have that?

Well Win odds will say 35%, but thats with 2 cards to come, to change it to 1 card to come, you divide the percentage by 2. its 17.5, but lets roun d up to 18%.

thats 18 out of 100, which is close to 4 -1.

So from that you can call the flop bet, as for every 4 times you will miss, you will win 1 .

I know that all those numbers was probably overloading the brains.

Just look up pot odds, there will be lots of different explanations. i know different ways to count odds etc, but getting it explained in different ways will help you.

1:3 to hit your flush?….I wanna play with your deck JP

Aside from that obvious typo….sometimes you do need the percentages and need to be able to switch between percentages and odds pretty quicky in your mind.

Percentages come in most handy when using the 2 and 4 rule. If you have X outs to make a hand, then your percentage odds are X times 2 with one card to come and x times 4 with 2 cards to come. (Its not exact by very very close)

So if you are chasing a flush you have 9 outs which means 18% with 1 card and 36% if you can see 2 cards.

So counting outs and working out your chances is mostly easier with percentages

Except pot odds are easier to work with using odds. For example the pot is $100 and it costs me $40 to call. I can win $100 for $40 investment. That 10 to 4 or 5 to 2 or 2.5 to 1.

When switching from percentages to odds, there are exact formulas to use. But like you American Jack, I truely suck at math. So I use the near enough is good enough principle.

With the 2.5:1 example, I think to myself, ok, that’s a little better than 3:1. Then I think 3 to 1 is the same as 1 in 4. Then I think that 1 divided by 4 is 25%. So at 2.5:1 pot odds, I need a little better than 25% odds to win. That would mean I could call if I had 12 outs with 1 card to come (without worrying about implied odds).

perhaps I set it up wrong but if you have 4 to a flush on the flop it’s the principle of 4 and 2 is 9 outs times 4 for 32 or roughly 33% to hit the flush by the river, 33% equals ratio of 1 in 3 flush chasers are going to hit the rail all in on the flop on the draw still 2 out of 3 times (statistically speaking but that isn’t right we know from experience. THEY will hit the flush TWO out of three and we will miss it THREE out of four or more!

Maybe it’s just me, but whenever I see a group of percentages, ratios and numbers my mind just sort of goes blank minus a big white question mark that just sorta floats there with no meaning. I bet I’m alone on this. I appreciate the help. I’ve read over it afew times and it’s sorta making sense. I picked up TI in hopes of it helping me avoid the inevitable question mark that plagues my brain. Let it do the math for me, which is does. I just need a little help understanding the results. One site says that if your pot odds are higher than your odds of hitting one of your outs then it’s okay to call or bet. Is that accurate?

Yes, that is the basis for solid poker decisions.

Please note: NEVER confuse “Win Odds” with the “Hand Odds” (odds of making your hand). Making your hand odds are on the odds tab to the left in TI.

Guys, without diminishing the win vs pot odds review:

I have often laid down a win vs pot odds great call when the other signals shout FOLD, FOLD, FOLD. As I have called unfavourable odds when I’m somehow sure I’ve got my opponent beat.

There are so many other factors involved, the odds are only a part of it all. Helpful? certainly; decisive? no.

Jack, don’t worry about not being able to get maths, you definately are not alone and it doesn’t mean you are incapable or “dumb”, maths just doesn;t click with some peop,le due to a few things.

The different ways that you hear it will definaetly help. When you are reading or wacthing a video about pot odds, get a piece of paper, and at every step that you read, right down what you think it means, then watch the next step. If it starts to make sense then you are probably getting it.

Just remember that you have 2 ratio’s going on, pot odds and win odds.

Pot odds is the ratio of what you have to call vs what you can win

win odds are The cards that will make you win vs the cards that won’t.

There are three ratios….
Pot odds (how much to call in relation to the total pot) Win odds (A combination of factors including players in the hand, position, EV and if compared to an empiracal(?) database what percent you can be excpected to win the hand) Hand odds (based on cards remaning in the deck and how many to come, the board and your hole cards as to what are your odds to make any of the various hands by the river)

Win odds are often deceiving. You can have one or two opponents in the hand, it is the turn, there are 4 to a flush on the board and you have a str8 draw, 2 pair or trips/set. Your win odds will give a false high ratio. It only can go on numbers, if your opponent is betting hard, chances are they are on the flush and unless you boat in the next card you will lose. Those are FOLD odds not win odds IMO.

I look at the hand odds and the pot odds to see if it makes sense to call. Win odds are also used to determine if I am going to get in there. They are all used but for different reasons at different times in different situations.